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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0000513OLVUser Interfacepublic2012-01-23 01:152012-07-30 18:13
Assigned ToFred 
PlatformAllOSAllOS VersionAll
Product Version0.0.3-SNAPSHOT 
Target Version0.0.3Fixed in Version0.0.3 
Summary0000513: Behaviour Of Media Style Controls Not Intuitive
Description<dandruczyk_home> scrolling is better. BUT stop should STOP the display not reset it to the beginning..., just like a cassette, stop stops at the CURRENT POSITION, it doesnt' rewind to the beginning of the tape
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dandruczyk (viewer)
2012-01-23 01:23

Removal of the pause key would also make it more intuitive if stop actually stopped and didn't reset. (Remember the behavior of a cassette player, Stop doesn't mean "goto the beginning" the Left Arrow with a vertical bar means go to beginning of track (or in this case, start of the File)

I'd suggest:
|< << <STOP> <PLAY> >> >| for the following actions respectively
Goto beginning of file,
Rewind(or reduce forward speed?)
Stop at current position
Resume playing (or start playing)
Fast forward (scroll faster?)
Jump to end of Log

the FF/Rewind buttons are the only ones where I'd suggest the behavior is debateable, whether you want it to alter just the speed (faster or slower), or speed and direction. (not that I know anyone who wants to play a logfile backwards). I'd lean towards FF being used to increase the playback speed and the Rewind button to reduce playback speed.
User avatar (0001151)
Fred (administrator)
2012-01-23 01:27

Play can/should be like it is on most stuff play/pause such that if it's playing, it pauses, and if it's paused it's playing, but with stop stopping, there isn't any point to doing this. Just mentioning it.

Also, having a reset option of some sort could be good, to do the zoom to fit thing like an initial load.
User avatar (0001162)
BenFenner (developer)
2012-01-29 16:59

Before I start, let me say that the navigation buttons are low on the priority right now for a few reasons. Navigation with the keyboard and mouse is top notch so the buttons are of less use. Also, the UI over-haul is coming and likely that stuff will all change.


Right now the play button does double duty as play/pause but that is not obvious because the icon image does not change. I will heavily consider removing the pause button and making the play button display the correct icon accordingly.

The stop button used to "pause", however I have brought the buttons in line with the standard for non-linear media. You're correct that stop and pause work quit differently on linear tape media. However on non-linear media or media where access time is almost instantaneous, pause and stop perform much different functions. Pause no longer allows the play drum/head to spin and playback to occur instantly. And stop no longer stops the play drum/head making play-back happen not-so-instantly. In non-linear media those two functions are effectively the same thing, so stop has been given a new role. Stop on CDs, DVDs, digital media players of all kinds now end the playback and bring you back to the beginning of the media. If you can view the playback buttons like your typical software media player you should be able to better reorient yourself.

Rebuttal is always welcome.
User avatar (0001163)
BenFenner (developer)
2012-01-29 17:04
edited on: 2012-01-29 17:05

As for your other suggestions Dave, I'm fully on board with changing to something identical or very similar to how you've described. I never 100% liked the way the buttons were placed and how they behaved. However, when I use a log viewer, I do not play the log EVER. I don't use navigation buttons. They make absolutely no sense to me. So as one who doesn't even use them and has a hard time even understanding how or why someone would use them, they've been low on the list of things to fix.

They may even see the chopping block (or moved to much less valuable real-estate) if no one speaks up with actual use cases for them.

User avatar (0001164)
Fred (administrator)
2012-01-29 17:08

Rebuttal: If you hit stop expecting it to not reset the position, then you are screwed and have to navigate back to where ever you found that 1 second sample in that 2 hour log, which could be impossible or time consuming. I think moving to the ends or centre should be confined to special purpose buttons that obviously do that. Perhaps remove stop all together and make play/pause have one symbol that covers both, or change when you click it. Symbols for going to ends should look something like this, maybe:

|< go to start
>| to to end
>|< go to centre, maybe?

Having a button that doesn't "say" go to end do just that is unintuitive and counter productive, though, this point is unrefutable.
User avatar (0001165)
BenFenner (developer)
2012-01-29 17:13

Okay then we'll change it.
Short term, the stop button will be removed.

Long term, we'll have no stop button, only a dual-purpose play/pause and other navigation buttons such as the arrows and arrows with vertical lines, etc.

The arrows that speed up playback or slowdown (and eventually reverse?) playback will look distinctly different from buttons that simply move the graph (in varying fine and coarse controls) so you know exactly what they will do when you click them.
User avatar (0001166)
Fred (administrator)
2012-01-29 17:15

Go to an end: [^] [^] [^] [^] [^]

And centre: [^]
User avatar (0001750)
Fred (administrator)
2012-07-27 22:14

Ben's done massive good work on this! It's not quite there yet, paste of my comments on latest hash in all three repos:

(00:01:28) Fred: i feel like play should go between speed up and slow down
(00:01:35) Fred: from a glance, i have no idea what those three do
(00:02:16) Fred: i wonder if the "fit" zoom should recenter?
(00:02:24) Fred: bit useless unless it does?
(00:03:17) Fred: and the goto end buttons should put the end in the middle

I think it's planned to add < and > as smaller increments, perhaps 10% by default?

Impressed with the improvement thus far. A few more tiny tweaks and it'll be about as perfect as possible.

Great work!
User avatar (0001761)
BenFenner (developer)
2012-07-30 14:46

Completed in git hash: 1fd1b907ccee289a4203cba59ad1406177ca1370

The navigation buttons are finished now. The latest changes include the addition of the fine scroll buttons, putting the play button with the play speed buttons, making the moveToEnd and moveToBeginning tasks put the first/last data point in the center of the screen. The eject button works to open a file now.
User avatar (0001762)
BenFenner (developer)
2012-07-30 17:53

git hash: 1ef4545bb0d9486ad4f5fd86444804c7f53bd47f

New slowDown and speedUp icons. (tortoise and hare)
Play and reset play speed icons swap locations.
User avatar (0001765)
Fred (administrator)
2012-07-30 18:13

I have an erection. Closing.

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